So these guys did a survey about what they found modest and immodest. Shockingly, they found women to be immodest to a ridiculous degree. They didn't ask outright for girls to wear burqas, but with all the shit they found to be immodest that's the only choice that was left. However: plausible deniability! Hey, I didn't say burqa, but I only left you one option, why are you getting so nasty?
Amongst the things these morons found to be lust-inciting were: pockets on shirts----come on, seriously!----writing on tee shirts--and probably tee shirts; the aforementioned bags worn across the chest, bending---because one's booty is presumably right there, existing and all, shorts, short skirts, halter tops, jogging, breathing, and fuck only knows what else. While there's some lip service about how it's boys' job to be modest and all that, the language about so-called immodest women is revealing. Forty-four percent of these guys think that embroidery on the pockets of jeans were immodest---along with tights.
An immodest lady is loud, proud, and dresses in a way that communicates such an attitude (male, age 24).
Something becomes immodest when the person wearing it has an attitude of carelessness (male, age 17).
Loud and proud, eh? Really, words fail. You're fucking right I'm loud and proud, pal, and I have a reaaaaaaaaally simple solution to your problem. Oh, and by the way? Your problem, not mine or other womens'.
Seems to me that a lot of the problem is that being female is a stumbling block. The way a woman walks, talks, or moves can be immodest.
It's all about the girls, you see. Men? Well, men have these lusts, you know. They're in constant danger of turning into Romantic Novel Asshole Hero, ripping bodices off of heaving bosoms and.....feeling really snippy and guilty about it, which means some girl is gonna hear about it. Apparently, all those guys wandering around in shorts, without shirts don't arouse any lust in girls. This only works if you don't think that girls have any desires of their own, or if you just don't give a shit about those desires. Frankly, if it's a hundred degrees out there, why should a woman be burdened with long skirts and heavy shapeless clothing?
Immodest: Screams that her body is different than mine. Attempts to manipulate me. Forcefully offers to trade what I want (in the flesh) for what she wants: attention (male, age 30).
The author of this piece points out how this violent language--screams, forcefully----is what rapists use in Tim Beneke's Men on Rape where, again, a woman just existing while being attractive is considered by men to be a violent attack on them. They want her and they can't have her. Therefore she is waving herself at them, knowing that they can't have her.
Michael Kimmel (summarizing Beneke in Guyland) discusses how lots of the terms used to describe a beautiful, sexy woman are metaphors for danger and violence: "ravishing," "stunning," bombshell," "knockout," "dressed to kill," and "femme fatale." "Women's beauty," Kimmel surmises, "is perceived as violence to men" (p. 229). Couldn't have said it better myself. We don't have language like this for men who literally attack women. Why?
Maybe because all both of these guys, at various points in the entitled male privilege continuum, talk a good game and may say all the right things, but ultimately, girls need to wear burqas.
"Sisters in Christ, you really have no concept of the struggles that guys face on a daily basis. Please, please, please take a higher standard in the ways you dress. True, we men are responsible for our thoughts and actions before the Lord, but it is such a blessing when we know that we can spend time with our sisters in Christ, enjoying their fellowship without having to constantly be on guard against ungodly thoughts brought about by the inappropriate ways they sometimes dress. In 1 Corinthians 12 the apostle Paul presents believers as the members of one body – we have to work together. Every Christian has a special role to play in the body of Christ. That goal is to bring glory to the Savior through an obedient, unified body of believers – please don't hurt that unity by dressing in ways that may tempt your brothers in Christ to stumble (male, age 24)."
So these guys go on and on about how they just want to be modst, but those slutty bitches with their heat stroke and their exercise and their existence just won't wear sheets! It all comes down to men demanding that women make life easier for men, while also making it clear that they don't think women have lustful thoughts. Well, around selfish assholes like this....I know I wouldn't. Something about male entitlement, sexual repression, sexism, and whinyness just doesn't snap my socks or make the old panties combust. And while they say some of the right things, the fact that at the heart of this thing is the same old double standard means that they're pretty much trying to convince people that they're interested in modesty.
And of course some Xtians get offended----not at these assholes, but at people discussing them! And with sarcasm, even! And not offering lots of qualifications and caveats and ego strokes to the major religious group in this country, which dominates law enforcement, the judiciary, the government, and the culture. Hint: when discussing something bigoted, sexist, horrifying, abusive, fucked up, or just plain awful, and your first concern is to not to criticize or illuminate the subject at hand but to point out that the large powerful dominant group perpetrating these things are not all bad....Well, gee, do you think that reveals your priorities just a tad? Maybe? Hint: if you want to piss me off, do that. Like, within the first five comments.
With all these earnest guys earnestly expressing their desire for modesty, they miss---as do so many other men----the simplest, easiest solution. It doesn't require women live for men, think for men, and twist themselves into knots for men. Do you suppose that could be why none of them suggest it?
Annoying personal anecdote: one day in the marketplace at Babylon, I found myself confronted with an otherwise charming and friendly Iraqi man who nevertheless would not meet my eyes. He avoided my eyes, or even looking at me directly. How rude I thought, before returning to the hooch to find out from a Muslim friend that the man was being polite to me by respecting my decision not to veil. In Islam modesty is a requirement for both genders, and men are supposed to make as much effort as women are. Thus, in a hot climate, the decision to forgo robes and veils was up to the woman---and indeed, in small towns and down small roads all across Central South Iraq that summer and fall I saw women and girls in all stages of veiling---or not. I was, frankly, charmed by the explanation, and enchanted by the sheer novelty of the notion---men taking responsibility for themselves? Men not demandign that the world revolve around their dicks? (Some time later, I saw some blonde female news person treat another Muslim man doing exactly the same thing with contempt and Western outrage.)
It's real simple. You want to be modest, guys? You want to avoid lustful thoughts, 'stumbling blocks, and titties? Simple.
Goggles! There are earplugs, noseplugs, and gloves to go with. Simple! You can't see those pesky women and you're not inflicting your desires on women that way. Oh, wait, you didn't think modesty was a desire? Well, it's sure got you hot and bothered, doessn't it? And you want women to satisfy it, don't you? So how are you any better with your whining about modesty than some lothario is with his talk of conquests? Either way, you want women to dance to your tune, and if you don't, here you go. Here's the way you prove it. You take the onus off women, and put it on you, where it belongs. Girls and women can wear whatever they want, and you won't be bothered or affected at all. Their lives will continue without your puling, whining ways, and they'll be happy.
I expect all religious organizations to adopt this immediately. This has been your cultural moment for the day. There's got to be more blowhards out there that I haven't pissed on yet.