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drac emu
So last week I wrote about Rebecca Watson, who in turn called attention to the case of a fifteen-year-old girl who'd proudly showed off the atheist book she'd gotten for xmas from her Xtian but understanding grandma. She got deluged with rape threats. On this guy's blog, two trolls argued that Watson was a....whatever frenzied paranoid male hate-fantasy they ever had, and what bugged him was.... this: a woman who flatly told guys that 'Yes, but' and changing the subject is not okay on topics regarding women. Oh, and the fact that people were arguing that a couple of the losers on his blog claimed they were feminist (sounds familiar?) but that they resented the notion that they had to do or say anything when a fifteen-year-old girl was threatened with rape. Because Rebecca Watson is a lying bitch who lies and that asking guys to give anything like the tiniest of shits about women is castrating. Because she's a lying whore. Or something. And if they don't use those exact words, you can't accuse them of it sarcastically, because after all, there's so much fucking room to dissent about a fifteen-year-old girl getting rape threats! It's like cucumber sandwiches at those feministy gatherings, it's just disagreement! Give them their feminist medal already, you castrating bitches. What? Bitch? They meant it affectionately.

Somehow these guys never get this wound up and dissent over other stuff. Just women. Just feminism. They'll argue that there could be extra-terrestrial life, Yetis, decent Republicans....but when it comes to the idea that Rebecca Watson might be a castrating, dick-munching, testicle-frying bitch whore monster who's out to massacre all men suddenly, there's no room for debate. You should give them the title of feminist because they claim they're feminists, and how evil is it to argue that merely calling one's self a feminist is not enough?! What's wrong with you bitches? There is no doubt too small that cannot be blow up to huge proportions about feminism and that in turn is not so terribly important that it takes precedence over anything feminists say. Conversely, there is no heinous charge against feminists that is not probably true. But, really, they're feminists!

Oh, and by the way? If you troll about Rebecca Watson the way trolls trolled and still troll about Rebecca Watson you're a sexist asshole, and there's no two ways about it. And no, you do not get to do a Hugo Schwyzer and name yourself a feminist. It does require something of you, and if you can't be bothered to get off your ass about rape threats then who the fuck wants you? These guys seem really pissed at two things: they can't call themselves whatever they want, and they can't be accepted when they redefine whatever they want.

The first long whinefest is the standard whine about how, "But what if they're ignorant? What if they don't know that that's an insult? What if they don't know it's sexist?"

1. Are they older than 12?

2. Are they on the internet?

3. THEN THEY FUCKING KNOW IT'S SEXIST ALREADY YOU GODDAMNED MORON. That's why they're doing it.

Greta Christine even gets some tedious whiner named Mallorie in her post who not only tries to shift the goalposts from the women-be-gettin'-uppity "#Mencallmethings" but who also whines that it's not men, it's people, which is about as classic derailing as you can get. Seriously, it's just beautiful. You could measure it and it would be almost mathematically perfect, not too much, not too little.

Back at the first topic, we get this this, which is a high point:

I’ve been following along and I won’t argue with anything you’ve said up until “More concerned about it, in fact, than you seem to be about the actual bad behavior in question.”

I’m Jason’s wife and I can tell you with 100% certainty that that is absolutely not the case


*head desk*

Of course, when any piece sets out to criticize feminists for villifying dissent, well, should a person be surprised? The notion that it's not dissent, it's trolling is apparently very hard to grasp. Can't take the word of those feminazis, can one?

It's basically one long tone argument in defense of some esoteric lofty intellectual principles, which amount to: it's too much to ask, bitches! Let's discuss pure intellectual matters in an effort to obscure that he's basically calling common sense villification, which in turn implies that it's too critical, much the way 'dissent' implies intellectual purity, and not sexism or trolling----or both.

I've gotten slammed for being too impatient with the zillionth asshole who comes sauntering into this blog and says, "Now, don't hit me....." or...."Don't you think you could be a little nicer?" or...."All I'm sayin' is, you might drive off people who could be allies!"

Yeah, asshole, if you're an ally, you don't demand concessions and apologies and tightrope walking around your special snowflake ass before you deign to show us how you, personally, can improve feminism. These guys aren't allies. If you push them the slightest bit, you'll bet assholes who whine, "I'm sorry you're so angry and bitter" ---and worse. Plus there's something incredibly creepy about a guy who has to be asked three times to stop doing something.....and still doesn't do it. I swear, some guys seem to think that being asked is a sign of weakness that they can just steamroll over in their anger. And let's face it, anybody who can't stand the very word feminism----or views being asked to give a shit about rape threats as an unreasonable, horrible demand----doesn't have much potential as an ally.

The whole first topic is basically this dude arguing that this is mean and cruel. To men, you know. When it comes to cruelty to women, somehow he has a hard time spotting it---and he doesn't find it in men trying to change the subject from the rape threats to a young girl to whatever their little troll hearts desire. Guys who will believe in Sasquatch suddenly can't believe that there's sexism in the world.

There are some things that are so awful that indifference is simply impossible. That indifference is the mark of somebody who has little to no potential as an ally, but lots of options if he goes into misogyny, which is where somebody like that is headed. They don't care that a girl was threatened with rape. They justified it. Why on earth would I want this person on my side?

A true potential ally will not think sexist terms are cute. Somebody who whines that they're an ally in order to troll will. I find it just about impossible to believe that there's people who could be of an age to navigate the internet who can claim that 'get me a sammich' or whatever else are not sexist. He wants to buy into that type of excuse. Women, of course, don't have patience for that. Nor do we have the time for it. Thanks, more trolls. Haven't seen that before.

Nowhere does this dude consider that maybe, just maybe, women might know more about their lives and thus be better at spotting trolls.

Nope, there might be some potential there. "Third group" refers to guys who could potentially be reached, if women just have patience with all the sexism and bile they spew. The moral: the slightest bit of male support is so valuable that women have to endure any amount of crap in order to get it.

They should, in fact, be vilified for their argumentation because they’ve committed any number of fallacies, exposed any number of personal cognitive biases, and basically shown themselves to be anything but decent human beings by our collective standard of what makes one so. The entirety of my rebuke — if it was anything but a mild rebuke — in my original post was intended to say that they should be called to the carpet for everything that they are, and not one whit more, because if you treat everyone that way, there’s the slim possibility that if a future troll IS that third-grouper, you’ve been consistent in your handling of past instances.

Notice anything missing?

Yeah, give me honest enemies. I've had enough of allies.

Comments

( 44 comments — Leave a comment )
happiestsadist
Jan. 3rd, 2012 06:46 pm (UTC)
Yeah, if coddling those jackasses is required to have them as "allies", why the fuck bother? Why spend all of our time making sure their delicate feelings aren't hurt? Allies are supposed to be helping, as opposed to being creepy dead weight.

That said, I laughed way too much at "sasquatch yes, sexism no". I once again wish I could silkscreen.
ginmar
Jan. 3rd, 2012 10:35 pm (UTC)
God, of course we've got one woman actually saying, she likes it when #menallherthings. Oh, Jesus Christ.
happiestsadist
Jan. 3rd, 2012 10:45 pm (UTC)
I just try to remind myself at these times that some people like being pooped on as well.

Less flippantly, it's just so fucking depressing to see an adult suckered in by the kind of magical thinking it takes to believe that she's actually liked when that happens.
ginmar
Jan. 3rd, 2012 10:49 pm (UTC)
She's claiming the fifteen-year-old girl wasn't threatened with rape, invited it, asked for it, and basically caused it. But let's worry about vilifying that kind of dissent.
happiestsadist
Jan. 3rd, 2012 10:54 pm (UTC)
GAH.

Magical thinking and some Stockholm syndrome. As long as she herself never, ever breaks these magical dude-set rules, nothing bad will ever happen to her. Also, she likes the shit she gets because the rules are bullshit.
kittenmommy
Jan. 4th, 2012 02:12 am (UTC)

As long as she herself never, ever breaks these magical dude-set rules, nothing bad will ever happen to her.

Until it does. Wonder if she'll blame herself then.
ms_daisy_cutter
Jan. 4th, 2012 05:22 pm (UTC)
Mallorie Nasrallah is a close buddy of Penn Jillette, loudmouth libertarian asshole. He's been defending and promoting her on Twitter.
ginmar
Jan. 4th, 2012 05:43 pm (UTC)
I've never gotten the deal with Penn And Teller. Too many of their fans seem like basic Libertarian assholes---dudes who don't want to call themselves Republican because they think they can't smoke weed then. Thus Ron Paul's popularity is explained.

They're all assholes.
ms_daisy_cutter
Jan. 4th, 2012 05:46 pm (UTC)
Too many of their fans seem like basic Libertarian assholes

Well, P&T appeal to that crowd, and they're really, really vocal.

I've watched maybe half a dozen episodes. On certain issues, such as medical marijuana, the show is good, but it's blatant to anyone who doesn't share all of Jillette's views that he exercises his "skepticism" very selectively.
ginmar
Jan. 4th, 2012 05:55 pm (UTC)
Let me guess---he's really skeptical about womens' rights, right?

Jeez, these unfuckable guys need to start realizing that it's not feminism that made them smelly, anti-social, and entitled. Add being a jerk on top of it and it's like distilled involuntary if self caused celibacy.
ms_daisy_cutter
Jan. 4th, 2012 05:58 pm (UTC)
I haven't seen any episode involving social justice, but I infer from various comments I've seen over the last few days that he's "skeptical" of anything that might require him to stop being a douchebag to people unlike himself.
ginmar
Jan. 4th, 2012 06:04 pm (UTC)
Yeah, and if that's just what you can pick up, imagine how bad it is when he's among like-minded losers. That Mallorie is a piece of sucking-up work. I like it when men talk to me! I like men, ask me how! That girl asked for it! You lied about that! She asked for it, she did, she did! Christ.
witch_wolf
Jan. 3rd, 2012 07:27 pm (UTC)
Sometimes I wounder wtf is with these people... I guess lets' delute and devalue what feminism is. Soon some of these latch-on-looking for a husband rape apologist will label Rick Perry, or Newt Gingrich and even Ron Paul feminists (although I have saw one person already call him the ultimate feminist.)

All this makes me queezy - maybe the RadFeminist have it right ... I don't know.
happiestsadist
Jan. 3rd, 2012 08:54 pm (UTC)
Quite. It seems like there's too many assholes who think the way to make the world a more feminist place is to dumb down and warp the definition of feminism to the point that a Frank Miller comic qualifies. Just lower the bar until it applies to everybody! As opposed to, you know, all that thinking, changing and hard worky stuff that's totally no fun.

I definite "war" as "only the use of nuclear bombs". Look! World peace, y'all!
witch_wolf
Jan. 3rd, 2012 09:31 pm (UTC)
Sigh - The next thing you know that the Pope would be teaching women's studies classes -- Because you know -- to be a true feminist, lol, is to sacrifice one's self to the betterment of society, only by, giving your self to god can you ever be saved.,

GRRRR
mountain_hiker
Jan. 3rd, 2012 07:55 pm (UTC)
I just thought I'd pass along this article that I just saw. I've been following you here on LJ, but I don't think I've ever commented.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/health/2012/01/03/mens-mag-or-rapist-study-claims-few-can-tell/
witch_wolf
Jan. 3rd, 2012 09:37 pm (UTC)
Oh Shit the Equalist shit again.

There was an ex-favorite author of mine that in the beginning of her writing seemed to have feminist ideas wrapped in her stories, then she went and ranted about how she was an Equalist and how Dumb Feminism was because "we" should be taking care of the menz too, and you can't be a feminist because it will take away menz rights. Then fast forward a couple of years, she gets into the BDSM scene and suddenly it's important that her character dressed up like a sex worker in every aspect of her life, and she had her character talk more about clothes then what the story was. Then of course she went on a tangent on her blog about how men and women are different and we should rejoice in the differences and she was re-thinking her stance on a women's choices -- and her character became nothing more than a sex toy... So yeah, it bugs me with equalist because they want to make it equal - men have it just as bad as women, and only working through these things can both men and women be liberated. - Which how can you be equal when women aren't considered it. I had an equalist once say to me, if we need to work on a male problem first then we should, give it equal attention we have been working on women's issues too much -- The problem is that the women had a crush on the man who she wanted to help, who turned into a MRA... Laughable at best... which in turn she turned her back on Feminism.
happiestsadist
Jan. 3rd, 2012 10:47 pm (UTC)
I am 90% sure I know which author this is. And very depressed that there's that 10% where I'm wondering which of many.
witch_wolf
Jan. 3rd, 2012 11:09 pm (UTC)
Her last name begins with a H....
happiestsadist
Jan. 3rd, 2012 11:10 pm (UTC)
HA! I was right.
witch_wolf
Jan. 3rd, 2012 11:12 pm (UTC)
LOL --
kittenmommy
Jan. 4th, 2012 02:13 am (UTC)

I guessed who it was without ever having read one word of her crap. LOL
ginmar
Jan. 4th, 2012 02:30 am (UTC)
Well, I have no idea...
kittenmommy
Jan. 4th, 2012 02:32 am (UTC)

I'm guessing Laura K. Hamilton.
witch_wolf
Jan. 4th, 2012 04:39 am (UTC)
Yup Laurell K. Hamilton --
kittenmommy
Jan. 4th, 2012 10:47 am (UTC)

Whoops, Laurell, not Laura. My bad!
ms_daisy_cutter
Jan. 4th, 2012 05:23 pm (UTC)
Really glad I never got into her work seriously. I read one or two of those books years ago, when they still had substance. They just never clicked with me.
shakatany
Jan. 3rd, 2012 10:02 pm (UTC)
Others apparently are fed up with having to explain feminism so we can send the ignoramuses here. Of course it won't satisfy them but at least will be on them to educate themselves or shut up.

Shakatany
witch_wolf
Jan. 3rd, 2012 11:05 pm (UTC)
I like that site it's been around for a while.
kittenmommy
Jan. 3rd, 2012 10:40 pm (UTC)

They don't care that a girl was threatened with rape. They justified it. Why on earth would I want this person on my side?

People never fail to astound me. Threatening a child with rape is OK now?
realinterrobang
Jan. 4th, 2012 02:01 am (UTC)
Yeah, apparently if she's conventionally pretty and fifteen years old, and puts her face on Reddit.

Never mind fifteen minutes without rape, I'd like every man on the planet to have to go through fifteen minutes of the kind of fear of rape that every woman on the planet goes through. Call it an empathy-building exercise, if you like.
kittenmommy
Jan. 4th, 2012 02:11 am (UTC)

Some people will never feel empathy, no matter what. Sad and scary.
ms_daisy_cutter
Jan. 4th, 2012 05:28 pm (UTC)
The other year, I ended a seven-year friendship with someone who didn't see the problem when some jerk came up to a 17-year-old girl who was doing ballet moves, in a tutu, on a public sidewalk and started taking photos of her crotch. He compared the girl to a Darwin Awards candidate and said, "The only victim there is the film crew."

Same person also likes to take surreptitious photos of strange women in public, and has strenuously argued with me that age-of-consent laws are stupid and that there's really no harm in, say, a 40-year-old man having an "affair" with a "mature" 16-year-old girl.

I don't miss him. At all. I've pretty much had my fill of baby boomers who think that their era was the last word in "sexual freedom" and that feminist objections thereto are no more credible than fundie objections thereto.
journalfag
Jan. 4th, 2012 08:43 pm (UTC)
YES! Thank you. I'm also sick to fucking death of their music. Buncha goddamn pro rape shit half the time.

If the girl is poor just do what you feel my shiney asshole.

ms_daisy_cutter
Jan. 4th, 2012 09:00 pm (UTC)
Christ, that lyric angers me SO MUCH.
pbrim
Jan. 4th, 2012 11:20 pm (UTC)
Yeah, that one really bugged me back then, too. Another from that era that I always hated was Lightening Strikes Again where the guy says that if his girl will just wait for him, sweetly, patiently, and (most of all) chastely, he will make it all up to her when he is ready to settle down. Meanwhile, he can't help himself from chasing after everything in skirts and she just needs to turn a blind eye to that.
ms_daisy_cutter
Jan. 4th, 2012 08:01 pm (UTC)
Additional skeevy bullshit from the "skeptic" community.
ad_kay
Jan. 4th, 2012 11:38 pm (UTC)
Been following this Reddit crap. Makes me want to puke.
visp
Jan. 5th, 2012 03:58 am (UTC)
Possibly fake marriage at a sports game gone wrong

The video itself isn't much, but the comments are just chuck full of people going "Oh, she should have lied and said yes to keep him from embarrassment - don't you know you should never shame a man in public." and "How dare she not be grateful for any offer of marriage." And then these same people turn around and bash women for not being straightforward "but why didn't they just say so," and for being fixated on marriage.
rantinan
Jan. 5th, 2012 11:38 pm (UTC)
Well, honestly when i read this the first time, i didn't quite understand. Get it yes, but not understand it deep in my bones.
In the last couple of hours however, I've had several "feminists" "explain" to me how it was more appropriate to use gendered insults than an accurate medical description to describe an over privileged man. and by "explain" i mean the sort of passive aggressive sweetness and light, I understand you, but there's no need to be so offensive, here have somethign thats twice as offencive tee hee hee

*offers you a 100 ton robocat who's weakness is pettings*
ginmar
Jan. 6th, 2012 05:19 am (UTC)
Heh. I've got Snowball, who views my only job is petting.
rantinan
Jan. 6th, 2012 05:25 am (UTC)
And does he attempt to pin you to the bed and make you not get up? I'm assuming he does..
ginmar
Jan. 6th, 2012 05:28 am (UTC)
He thinks he's being abused if he's not curled up like a fluffy white cockroach on my lap, paws up.
rantinan
Jan. 6th, 2012 05:33 am (UTC)
He and daishi should have a competition for "cat most likely to resemble a waistline drought excluder"
( 44 comments — Leave a comment )

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