ginmar ([info]ginmar) wrote,
@ 2008-05-07 14:03:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend!  Next Entry
Entry tags:assholes, rape

Rape is not a crime; at least eight more rapists walk around free
You remember the De Anza rape case, right? Three female soccer players rescued a gang rape victim from eight members of some of the school's sports teams, who were gathered around a naked, vomit-smeared, unconscious girl. "She did this to herself," said a basketball player.

May be triggering.


Lauren Chief Elk and April Grolle are 20-year old De Anza College students and teammates on the school's soccer squad. They were leaving a party at a house when they realized something wrong was going on in a back room where the doors were closed and the lights were off.

"We heard and saw a girl tapping on this door in the kitchen saying 'There is a girl in there with eight guys," explains Chief Elk. They say they tried to get into the room, but were confronted by a baseball player. "[He said] 'Mind your own business; she wants to be in here' and slams the door," says Grolle. What they saw through a crack in the door horrified them. "When I looked in, I saw about ten pairs of legs surrounding a girl, lying on the mattress on the floor and a guy on top of her with his pants down and his hips thrusting on top of her," recall Chief Elk. "And when I saw that I knew immediately something wasn't right. It just didn't look right." "I saw that this young girl did not want to be in there, and that's when we just went 'We're getting this girl out of there,'" says Grolle. April and Lauren -- along with a third soccer player named Lauren Breayans -- broke down the door and were shocked with what they found. "This poor girl was not moving. She had vomit dribbling down her face. We had to scoop vomit out of her mouth [and] lift her up. Her pants were completely off her body," says Chief Elk. "She had her one shoe one, her jeans were wrapped around one of her ankles and her underwear was left around her ankles. To the left of the bed there was some condom thrown on the ground." "When they lifted her head up, her eyes moved and she said 'I'm sorry,'" says Grolle. "One of the guys who was in the room said 'This is her fault. She got drunk and she did this to herself.'"


The Sheriff's Department declined to interview the three women who saved the girl, so, duh, they didn't have enough evidence to pursue the case. That means at least rapists are wandering around, to say nothing of the men and women who have spent the year since then harassing the three rescuers.

Deborah Saunders doesn't try and deny that what these men did is rape. The boys will be boys excuses don't take long to appear, though.

But then she truly goes off the deep end. She questions the victim's decision to file a civil suit. She quotes an attorney who represents the son of the owners of the house where the rape took place as saying, "The issue isn't whether it's acceptable conduct, the issue is whether it's a crime," and then follows with this stunner:

And if it is a crime, is it the same as premeditated rape? It may well be that civil courts are better suited to redress what happened at that March 2007 party.

According to Grolle and another source, the vomit on Jane Doe was not hers. Is it in society's interest to prosecute kids who are months older than Jane Doe for doing things in an alcohol-fueled atmosphere that they never would have done sober or alone? I think there's reasonable doubt.


If it's a crime? Jesus wept. When is rape not a crime? Oh, yeah, that's right. The past week has been full of rapes that weren't taken seriously, plus one accusation of rape made under duress to a murderer.

Eight more rapists are free, and God only knows how many men who sympathize with them, want to be them, want to rape if they could. The difference between Western society and the supposedly primitive societies we criticize is this: those societies don't make any pretense of being fair to women. We do. Deep down, it's just a matter of degree. Western women have rights that don't get taken seriously, don't get enforced, and don't do any good. Western societies offer women hope where there is little to none. Our population is full of rapists, rape victims who never got justice, and men who love the idea of rape so much that they defend it by blaming the victim for it all.

Yeah, we're so superior.

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/rnr/670373958.html


(Post a new comment)


[info]expatriette
2008-05-07 07:40 pm UTC (link)
This is so unbelievably disgusting.

(Reply to this)


[info]snowmentality
2008-05-07 07:44 pm UTC (link)
"Jesus wept." is just what I said to this. What in the holy living hell?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ginmar
2008-05-07 07:48 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, I'm done. I've had too many men---supposedly my friends, family, and fellow liberals---say shit that supports attacks like this that any man now must prove himself worthy instead of being given the benefit of the doubt. That's it for me.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]snowmentality, 2008-05-07 07:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-07 07:55 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-07 08:03 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]nimbrethil, 2008-05-07 08:48 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-07 08:55 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-07 08:56 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-07 09:18 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-07 09:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2008-05-08 12:09 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 12:15 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2008-05-08 12:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 12:40 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2008-05-08 12:46 am UTC (Expand)
most of them are men - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-08 12:14 am UTC (Expand)
Most of them can't pass the exam - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 12:18 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Most of them can't pass the exam - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-08 12:21 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]the_resa, 2008-05-07 08:13 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]cathrynapple, 2008-05-07 08:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-07 08:26 pm UTC (Expand)
not jumping on you, just the "male friends" opinions - [info]semiotic_pirate, 2008-05-07 08:30 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sophiaserpentia, 2008-05-07 09:17 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2008-05-08 12:10 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 12:16 am UTC (Expand)

[info]misfratz
2008-05-07 07:49 pm UTC (link)
It was her fault? What the crap is this? If it can be 'her fault' when she's drunk, how does their being drunk provide an excuse? Oh, wait, they have penises, so that's all ok.

So angry. I mean, really, if the other women hadn't been there, she could have choked and died. Would they have got away with that as well? Thank god they were there, but the whole thing is repulsive, and I can't believe anyone would defend these rapists.

Sorry this is kind of incoherent, need to go and sleep really.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ginmar
2008-05-07 07:51 pm UTC (link)
Well, why wouldn't they blame her? It gets them off the hook, doesn't it?

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]lookingforwater
2008-05-07 07:49 pm UTC (link)
"She did this to herself"

...how?

And I don't just mean that rhetorically, I mean for some reason I'm trying to picture the logistics and it's just... not working...

They could at least pretend they're trying to make sense, you know?

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]lookingforwater
2008-05-07 09:32 pm UTC (link)
And an ETA as I mull over it more:

You know, every time this case pops back up on the radar, I end up getting hung up on that one little line. It's like the bitter cherry of absurdity perched on top of the shit sundae. She could not do it to herself. Short of conditioning yourself to be terrified of your dildo, it's just not possible. There is no DIY rape. Even if she was drunk, someone still had to give her the booze. Someone had to decide to climb on top of her. Someone had to decide to just watch, someone had to pull out the condom, someone had to undress her.

I just... graagh!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-07 09:39 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lookingforwater, 2008-05-07 10:04 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-07 10:09 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lookingforwater, 2008-05-07 10:12 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-07 10:14 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lookingforwater, 2008-05-07 10:35 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-07 10:43 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]lookingforwater, 2008-05-07 11:29 pm UTC (Expand)
Harry Potter/Kristallnacht thing - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-08 12:17 am UTC (Expand)
Re: Harry Potter/Kristallnacht thing - [info]salzara_tirwen, 2008-05-08 03:03 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Harry Potter/Kristallnacht thing - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-08 03:15 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Harry Potter/Kristallnacht thing - [info]drooling_ferret, 2008-05-08 08:11 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Harry Potter/Kristallnacht thing - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-08 08:21 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Harry Potter/Kristallnacht thing - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-08 03:22 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Harry Potter/Kristallnacht thing - [info]salzara_tirwen, 2008-05-08 09:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2008-05-08 12:47 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]erikagillian, 2008-05-08 02:47 am UTC (Expand)

[info]the_resa
2008-05-07 08:11 pm UTC (link)
'This is her fault. She got drunk and she did this to herself.'

Translation:
She was vulnerable.
Which is a crime in our society.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ginmar
2008-05-07 08:14 pm UTC (link)
She was a woman who dared think she was a human being. That says it all. To them, she was a piece of meat.

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]the_resa
2008-05-07 08:15 pm UTC (link)
Oh wait.
Fighting back is a crime too.

Or maybe just "Being A Woman is a Crime In Our Society."

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]cathrynapple
2008-05-07 08:19 pm UTC (link)
Have any women here ever had a male call you "weak" or "paranoid" or tell you that you're "being scared by the media" for ever expressing concern about the possibility of being raped? Or for being the slightest bit uneasy amidst a large group of drunken men?

THIS situation in our society is what drives those fears. This willingness and urge to rape, this protection for rapists, this lack of support for victims. This "if you're raped, that's gross and you're a slut" mentality.

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ginmar
2008-05-07 08:21 pm UTC (link)
Oh, yeah, it's both liberal and conservative men both. Politics mean nothing. Women are possessions to men on both sides of the aisle and the only women they protect are 'their own.'

Time for a shooting spree.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]ciardhapagan, 2008-05-07 10:25 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]shadowflyer, 2008-05-08 01:01 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ciardhapagan, 2008-05-08 02:37 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]sophiaserpentia, 2008-05-08 01:33 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]silver11016
2008-05-07 08:35 pm UTC (link)
I work in sci-fi/anime conventions. There tends to be a lot of drunken partying on Friday and Saturday nights, and sometimes we get tasked with breaking them up. Sometimes I go in with a partner, sometimes I'm alone. I walk armed (a knife and a manrikigusari) just in case, and so far my staff badge is enough to protect me. Most people are smart enough to know better than to touch a high-ranking staff member who can throw them out, and when I've been touched inappropriately in the halls a simple "Do you know who you just assaulted?" and a badge flash takes care of things.

But you know, every time I have to deal with it, I always wonder if tonight will be the night I meet someone who doesn't care (or is too drunk to care) about my staff badge. I wonder if tonight will be the night when the privilege of my position doesn't matter.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-07 08:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]shinotenshi02, 2008-05-08 12:23 am UTC (Expand)

[info]desert_vixen
2008-05-08 01:48 am UTC (link)

Or for being the slightest bit uneasy amidst a large group of drunken men?

Of course. Because HOW DARE YOU imply that THEY might be potential rapists? Don't you know they're good guys?

No, what we know is that if we get raped, society is going to ask why we were there, what were we wearing, why were we drinking, couldn't we tell it was a stupid idea?

Fuck, sometimes I really hate people.

DV

(Reply to this)(Parent)


[info]semiotic_pirate
2008-05-07 08:27 pm UTC (link)
*is sickened*

holy hannah in a handbasket... I'm glad that they took notice and took action, instead of what frequently happens - the glance away and refusal to see that something wrong is being perpetrated.

(Reply to this)

Premeditated rape?
[info]nimbrethil
2008-05-07 08:46 pm UTC (link)
Premeditated rape? Sorry, um, is there such a thing as raping someone as a crime of passion? Is someone seriously trying to suggest that there's different degrees of rape? 1st, 2nd, and 3rd degree?

Y'know, I might buy the idea that raping someone while drunk is somewhat different than raping someone while sober. That is the only scenario I can think of where there might be more than one "kind" of rape.

Oh, wait, that's right! I nearly forgot--if a guy kills someone while drunk, or goes driving while drunk, or commits any other crime while intoxicated, he DOESN'T get a free pass! Gee, I wonder...

(Reply to this)


[info]stardragonca
2008-05-07 08:49 pm UTC (link)
Jesus wept. And died.

(Reply to this)


[info]teacupdiaries
2008-05-07 08:58 pm UTC (link)
I once said to my brother that our society encourages rape, and he instantly sneered at me, and told me that statements like that are why "no one respects feminists".

I listed accounts just like this one. I talked about how men are socialised to be blameless, and outright encouraged to take advantage of women. We talked about the justice system and how biased it is. I asked him if he'd seen the kind of stuff I'm talking about when he worked as a bartender, and he was easily able to remember many examples of men using coercion to get women home, or drunk, or into their beds.

By the end of the discussion, he agreed with me.

I really wish more men would stop with the knee jerk reaction, and actually fucking LISTEN to what is being said. Shit like this? Is exactly what I'm talking about.

Everyone claims rape is "wrong", but so many of them turn around and say shit like "well, is it really a crime?" or "she asked for it."

Remind me why I should feel so equal and valued and safe again?

(Reply to this)


[info]cpairykahsparow
2008-05-08 12:11 am UTC (link)
I don't know how much you've read into the case, but this happened in my city (which absolutely disgusts me). Anyway, one thing I thought missing from these articles was that the girl was only 16.

(and I'm a bit behind with my information because I am in college and have not been reading the local papers)

(Reply to this)(Thread)


[info]ginmar
2008-05-08 12:16 am UTC (link)
Oh, God, that makes it worse.

Really, I just want to kill sometimes. I know how to. May as well put it to use.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

How come there's only 6 comments
[info]jeric_synergy
2008-05-08 12:49 am UTC (link)
There's only six comments on Saunder's story at the source, WUWT? There should be thirty ripping on her rank stupidity.

(Reply to this)(Thread)

Re: How come there's only 6 comments
[info]ginmar
2008-05-08 06:42 pm UTC (link)
Because only rape victims are stupid, silly.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: How come there's only 6 comments - [info]jeric_synergy, 2008-05-08 07:57 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: How come there's only 6 comments - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 07:59 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: How come there's only 6 comments - [info]jeric_synergy, 2008-05-08 08:02 pm UTC (Expand)
we all know intoxication is really just an invitation to sexual violation
(Anonymous)
2008-05-08 02:48 am UTC (link)
This hits too close to home.

I talked to the D.A. who rejected my case, who told me that my case was dropped because the suspect acted as "a reasonable person, in good faith, [who] would not be able to know that it wasn't consensual; we'd have to prove there was malicious intent."

Because I didn't say NO (doesn't matter that I was going in and out of consciousness), the poor guy couldn't have known that I DIDN'T want it and we can't send him to jail for being confused! Furthermore, they cannot prove that I was unconscious ("you probably had what we call a 'brown-out'," he said), only that I can't remember what happened for most of the rape accidental sex.

Apparently, it wouldn't have made a difference if there were witnesses. This is bullshit.

News flash, ladies and gentlemen: there is apparently no criminal intent behind fucking someone who's unconscious/passed-out drunk. The dumb bitch should learn to watch what she drinks!

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

Re: we all know intoxication is really just an invitation to sexual violation - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 02:22 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: we all know intoxication is really just an invitation to sexual violation - [info]stardragonca, 2008-05-08 03:52 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: we all know intoxication is really just an invitation to sexual violation - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 06:15 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]slythwolf
2008-05-08 10:55 am UTC (link)
Since when does rape have to be premeditated to be rape? WTF?

(Reply to this)


[info]aurilion
2008-05-08 03:40 pm UTC (link)
This is entirely off topic, but I just wanted to share this with you in case you hadn't seen it yet, via [info]tiny_houses
http://www.reuters.com/news/video?videoId=74335&feedType=VideoRSS&feedName=OddlyEnough

(Reply to this)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 06:27 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]pbrim, 2008-05-08 06:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 06:41 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2008-05-08 08:09 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]aurilion, 2008-05-08 10:14 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 10:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]aurilion, 2008-05-08 10:34 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 10:42 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]aurilion, 2008-05-09 07:04 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]pbrim, 2008-05-08 10:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 10:58 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2008-05-08 11:45 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]chochiyo_sama, 2008-05-09 03:59 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]aurilion, 2008-05-09 07:08 am UTC (Expand)

Create an Account
Forgot your login?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…