ginmar ([info]ginmar) wrote,
@ 2007-05-03 09:46:00
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The dangerous book for boys
Yeah, so the hot new things is a book that teaches boys how to have fun: build paper sail boats, tree houses, pirate's hats, bows and arrows....and how to act around girls, like you know, we're a separate species who don't have any interest in any of those things.

So why am I so pissed off first thing in the morning?

What the hell are little girls going to be doing while the boys are out having all this fun? Why, the girls are going to be inside, reading insipid books about insipid heroines, having tea parties and playing dress up and learning how to appeal to and wait on boys and babies. What fun!

We're teaching little girls right off the bat that they're servants and baby factories and we're teaching boys that they get to have fun. Anybody see a teensy problem with that?

Their advice for boys to relate to boys is hysterical. Evidently not jeering at a girl 'who needs help' and being clean are terrible chores for guys, because they have to be told that. Here's a tip, kiddies: maybe the girls want to have the same kind of fun you do, instead of sitting around the house and learning how to be a servant. Maybe they're sick of the frickin' easy bake oven and want to go outside and run around and not get told to sit down nad be more ladylike. God, I know I did. Another irksome memory from my younger days: the way the teacher would say, "Raise your hands!" but let the boys get away with shouting out the answer, while suddenly remembering the rule only when a girl did it.

If they put together a dangerous book for girls, what do you bet it'll contain tips on makeup and fairy dresses and baking cupcakes?


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[info]atdelphi
2007-05-03 03:24 pm UTC (link)
I just saw this book at the bookstore the other day, and I'm glad to see someone else commenting on it. It's things like this that made me actually hate being female when I was little - and how messed up is that? There's nothing wrong with finding tea parties and dress-up fun, no matter what gender you are, but for little girls who constantly see all the clothes they want to wear in the boys' section, and all the toys they want to play with shown on the commercials as being played with only by boys, and all the fun activities offered through Boy Scouts instead of Girl Guides, it sets up that self-loathing but good - especially when that girl hits puberty at nine and quickly discovers that "young women" can get away with even less boyishness than girls, and that well-developed girls who hang around with boys are, of course, sluts.

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[info]ginmar
2007-05-03 03:26 pm UTC (link)
Yeah, and when I saw this thing on the news today there was not a hint of realization that maybe you know GIRLS HAVE CHILDHOODS TOO! Jesus, that pissed me off. It's 2007, and girls are still supposed to be little housewives.

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(no subject) - [info]atdelphi, 2007-05-03 03:35 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-03 03:37 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]counslr_tragedy, 2007-05-03 04:05 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-03 04:09 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]glamazonwarrior, 2007-05-05 03:48 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]atdelphi, 2007-05-05 03:56 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]glamazonwarrior, 2007-05-05 06:45 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]atdelphi, 2007-05-05 02:24 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]glamazonwarrior, 2007-05-05 05:15 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 04:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-03 04:20 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 04:30 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]neintales
2007-05-03 07:27 pm UTC (link)
To this day I'm still partially convinced that family and peer pressure over his always hanging out with a GIRL made my best friend suddenly stop being my best friend in middle school.

Even though I was a fair tomboy- but of course I suspect now that that made many teachers and such think maybe I was developing the GAY.

My parents were cool with how I was for the most part (other than refusing to buy me boys' action figures) but I had almost every other authority figure stomping through my life trying to twist me around, whether it was to be more girly, or be less 'bookish'.

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[info]erinlin
2007-05-03 03:26 pm UTC (link)
And be such a hideous shade of pink that those of us with sensitive eyes can't even read the damn thing?

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[info]ginmar
2007-05-03 03:27 pm UTC (link)
With sparkles. And it'll be all about tea parties and shit like that, like girls don't want to get in the dirt and have fun and stuff.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)(Expand)

(no subject) - [info]liberationparty, 2007-05-03 04:16 pm UTC (Expand)
Maybe it's Brainwashing - [info]kalimeg, 2007-05-03 05:50 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Maybe it's Brainwashing - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-03 05:54 pm UTC (Expand)
Remember that pair of books I found at B&N? - [info]bellatrys, 2007-05-03 04:24 pm UTC (Expand)

(Anonymous)
2007-05-04 03:37 am UTC (link)
I've always been proud of the fact that my son, in choosing the colours he wanted in an outfit (aged 6) would not be swayed from his choice of pink ... even though his school mates teased him and his sister tried to explain why.
His answer? "It's a nice colour and I like it."

His clothing colour choices are still ... creative, but he wears a uniform at work so tends to restrict the coloured clothing to his downtime.
There is nothing quite like being greeted by a 'peacock' first thing in the morning! *G*

CuriousWolf

CuriousWolf

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[info]j_v_lynch
2007-05-03 03:34 pm UTC (link)
I saw this book a couple of months ago and it pissed me off too. It was on a shelf with other red, black, green or blue books about dragons and knights and such. Right beside it was the shelf with the Girl's books all covered with glitter and pastel shades and filled with thing like recipes for fairy dust and love potions.

As for the EasyBake, I used to fight with my brother over getting to use it.

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[info]anne_jumps
2007-05-03 03:44 pm UTC (link)
This book (I saw it in a Borders email) seems to me to be the latest edition of a longstanding (over a century) series of books about the same thing -- fun stuff for boys to get up to. Girls, naturally, do not want to get up to fun things. Oh, and girls can't do boy things because that means the boys get cooties, you know.

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(no subject) - [info]liberationparty, 2007-05-03 04:12 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]chaoticgoodnik, 2007-05-03 06:37 pm UTC (Expand)
Nostalgia for childhood gender bias....
[info]sydneycat
2007-05-03 03:52 pm UTC (link)
oh wait, how can you be nostalgic about something that never went away?

UGH. From the Amazon.com review:
"...a boy might be prepared for anything, even girls (which warrant a small but wise chapter of their own)."

Ya know, nostalgia for a past that included boys getting to do all the cool stuff is not nostalgia I'm interested in. Sure...make a book about all this neat stuff...but make it *gender neutral*. Dammit.

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Re: Nostalgia for childhood gender bias.... - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-03 03:55 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: Nostalgia for childhood gender bias.... - [info]archbishopm, 2007-05-03 04:13 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]liberationparty
2007-05-03 04:03 pm UTC (link)
If only this was a society where
1. I could publish a gender neutral (and non-stupid) Book of Fun
2. That included BOTH the tea parties and the tree houses
3. WITHOUT the implication that one is for girls and the other for boys
4. And it could be distributed in North America without fundie nitwit parents getting up in arms about the liberal gayification of their virile preschool-aged penis-endowed progeny
I would be a much happier person. Instead, I spend my free time nudging small people towards androgyny and arguing with education students that girls ARE SO as good at science as boys, once you stop treating them like glittery imbeciles, and moderate-minded clergy that their daughters were *not*, in all likelihood, born with any God-given passion for ballerinas and mermaids that their sons didn't have, too. I think I need a hobby of the relaxing variety.


I also wish my future mother-in-law, after six years of knowing me, would quit giving me lilac-scented bath gel for Christmas when she sees my fiance buying me power tools and her husband training me in auto maintenance & repair, if only for what will undoubtedly ensue if we have daughters. *sigh* Is there any polite way to inform family members that one's home is a Barbie-free zone? No? Back to sanding my personal ClueBat....

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(no subject) - [info]snowmentality, 2007-05-03 04:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thediva_laments, 2007-05-03 05:17 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]shinotenshi02, 2007-05-04 10:55 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dampscribbler, 2007-05-17 09:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-17 09:56 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dampscribbler, 2007-05-17 10:10 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-17 10:13 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dampscribbler, 2007-05-18 12:11 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-18 12:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dampscribbler, 2007-05-17 09:51 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]snowmentality
2007-05-03 04:12 pm UTC (link)
I'm reading this book called Packaging Girlhood that has a lot to say about stuff like this. How all toy advertising shows the boys doing active things, and the girls either a) watching the boys play or b) doing passive things like wearing jewelry. The entirety of marketing teaches girls from the time they're born that their job is to be ornamental and serve others -- and shop. Like every girl's toy ever is about shopping.

I definitely learned all of that and I'm still trying to unlearn it.

Jeez, I got to get a blog. I could restart the LJ but I'm thinking of doing something a little more focused on feminism and science, and a lot less focused on complaining about school. Also I want my own domain name. No one owns my name yet.

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you should start by reviewing that book! - [info]bellatrys, 2007-05-03 04:40 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: you should start by reviewing that book! - [info]snowmentality, 2007-05-03 06:26 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: you should start by reviewing that book! - (Anonymous), 2007-05-06 12:34 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]breklor
2007-05-03 04:25 pm UTC (link)
I dunno... I've met some seriously bad-ass faeries and eaten some really, really dangerous cupcakes in my time...

Seriously though, you know what really bothers me about a book like this? It would cost them nothing - NOTHING - to call it a "book for kids" and have half boys and half girls in the illustrations. GAH.

Dammit, little girls need to learn to blow shit up just as much as little boys do.

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(no subject) - [info]archbishopm, 2007-05-03 05:18 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]breklor, 2007-05-03 06:39 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]archbishopm, 2007-05-03 07:17 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dinpik, 2007-05-03 07:20 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thediva_laments, 2007-05-03 05:19 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]breklor, 2007-05-03 06:47 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]shinotenshi02, 2007-05-04 10:57 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 05:38 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]breklor, 2007-05-03 06:52 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]darker_glow, 2007-05-04 01:10 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]magickittyblog
2007-05-03 05:29 pm UTC (link)
My mother-in-law got that for my husband for Xmas. I haven't even cracked it open to look; my son's only 3, so I thought I'd have a bit of time before needing to read up on "dangerous" things.

What does the "danger" refer to? Is it supposed to be ironic? I'd like to see a "dangerous" that teaches girls to be OMG independent and creative and thinkers and risk-takers.

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(no subject) - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 06:46 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 06:48 pm UTC (Expand)
Best take on this
[info]jeric_synergy
2007-05-03 05:36 pm UTC (link)
As usual, from the UK.

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[info]kalimeg
2007-05-03 05:38 pm UTC (link)
The only sexist advantage I ever had as a girl was hearing nary a peep when I beat up a boy with his own baseball bat.

:)

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(no subject) - [info]shinotenshi02, 2007-05-04 11:00 am UTC (Expand)

[info]akycha
2007-05-03 05:41 pm UTC (link)
My best friend and I started writing a book of "fun" when we were kids. It included sliding down banisters and burping at the table, as well as suggested practical jokes to play on your parents. We were both girls.

The "one chapter on girls" reminds me irresistibly of classic ethnography: chapters on dance symbolism, language, death and dying -- oh, and one chapter over here on marriage and child rearing, with the women carefully segregated into it. As though women don't die, or dance, or speak, or anything.

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[info]kimberly_t
2007-05-03 06:19 pm UTC (link)
I really need an icon of a kitty blowing a raspberry, because that's how I feel about the sexist attitude written into that book.
My daughter has Megabloks (like Legos, but lots bigger and easier to track down and clean up afterwards), toy cars, trucks and trains, and a box of kiddie tools that she plays with just as happily as the usual 'girly' toys of stuffed animals, baby dolls and tea set. (I actually didn't want to get her that tea set when she asked for one for Christmas, but my husband pointed out that there's nothing wrong with encouraging good manners in social situations.) And her DVD rack contains Bob the Builder and Thomas the Tank Engine as well as Dora the Explorer and the usual Disney fare. For her birthday this year, she's getting not just a princess gown but a plastic sword and armor, too.
I do admit, I wonder what her first year at school will be like, when she starts playing with girls and boys who've been raised in the traditional fashion.

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(no subject) - [info]chaoticgoodnik, 2007-05-03 06:41 pm UTC (Expand)
<snork!> - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 06:46 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]ladyfox7oaks
2007-05-03 06:42 pm UTC (link)
Understood, always thought the Boyscout manual was MUCH cooler than the "Girl Scout" version, the GUYS learned 8 different ways to mark trails and 15 different knots, and the stars, and the camping, and the... yeah- you get the idea...

So we need to beat them to the punch and write the Dangerous book for girls, showing them how to rock climb, and rappel, and how to carve boats and make sails and how to orient themselves by day, night oR overcast skies, and... when it's nice to be polite and when to take the Jack@$$ and leave him sprawling in the dirt.

What else would you put in there?

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(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-03 06:47 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thediva_laments, 2007-05-03 07:15 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 07:15 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 07:54 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 10:06 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 10:10 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 10:13 pm UTC (Expand)
??? - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 06:49 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: ??? - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 06:55 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: ??? - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 07:08 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: ??? - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 07:29 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: ???// Knots - [info]jeric_synergy, 2007-05-03 07:48 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: ???// Knots - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 07:59 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: ???// Knots - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 07:59 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: ??? - [info]rikibeth, 2007-05-03 09:12 pm UTC (Expand)
Re: ??? - [info]glamazonwarrior, 2007-05-05 04:58 am UTC (Expand)
Re: ??? - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-05 05:13 am UTC (Expand)
Re: ??? - [info]glamazonwarrior, 2007-05-05 05:17 am UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]neintales, 2007-05-03 07:20 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ladyfox7oaks, 2007-05-03 07:53 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]sarah_frost
2007-05-03 06:57 pm UTC (link)
I'd have read a dangerous book for girls, and throw it to the wall in disgust if it was all about having tea and cakes and sitting around being ladylike. It sounds like a good title for a feminist book.

I'm sure the writer thinks he just loves women, but he really should get that writing them off in a chapter like there's no way they would enjoy stereotypical boy stuff because 20th century conceptions of gender are totally innate really doesn't cut it. The Dangerous Book and inclusive language and illustrations would have done the job much better.

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[info]neintales
2007-05-03 07:18 pm UTC (link)
Amusingly enough, I have somewhere around my house a little booklet from the 1950's based on some serial tv Western.. I forget the name without looking, I sort of want to think "Straight Arrow" or something like that.

It's from the 50's and sounds less sexist, since in it, little girls and little boys were doing about the same fun "Make Injun Crafts!" stuff.

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[info]yo_onions
2007-05-04 12:16 am UTC (link)
In the culture I come from boys and girls were treated almost exactly the same. The only difference is that boys received corporal punishment at times, whereas girls did not. Girls grew up to be tomboys, almost all of us, in this colonial culture. The western version of femininity still comes as a shock to me in many subtle ways.

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[info]darker_glow
2007-05-04 12:58 pm UTC (link)
Last Christmas I bought this book for my nice. This summer we are building a fortress for her and her best friend cause the boys wont let them play in theirs. That's ok because my younger brother is a carpenter and he has promised to help so together we are building our own as a summer family project and it will be bigger, pinker and more badass then the boys any day.

The only thing about this that really disturbs me is that I'm almost 30 for heavens sake and the highlight of my summer vacation will be building a fortress with two 7 year old girls---

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(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-04 02:22 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]thediva_laments, 2007-05-04 08:59 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]darker_glow, 2007-05-04 09:42 pm UTC (Expand)

[info]dampscribbler
2007-05-17 09:50 pm UTC (link)
I've got a whole new perspective on this now that I'm a mother to a daughter. I was determined to avoid pink, provide gender-neutral clothing and toys and role models to her. But she started making her own choices early, and she adores pink, she loves cuddling her baby dolls, and she'll fight like hell for her fancy shoes. I support her in these things, not because I think girls are "supposed" to do these things, but because they are things *she* likes. I'd support my boy if he liked them, too.

My daughter also likes touching ants and spiders, running around screaming like a banshee, and throwing her body around. When she was less than a year old, she always looked at a new toy from every possible angle to figure out what she could do with it. We joked that she was our "little engineer." As she gets older I expect she'll love taking things apart and putting them together as much as I did. I agree that these things need to be nurtured in girls as much as they are in boys. What I'm not ready to concede is that hugging her baby dolls, wearing pink, cooking meals, and loving shoes are aspects of her that are to be discouraged or devalued. Why the hell shouldn't a girl grow up to be a woman who loves babies, cooking, and looking pretty? That doesn't mean she can't be a rocket scientist too.

We're so trapped in gender stereotypes that even when we're rejecting them we're buying into them. There's no room for the boy who is playing war games while wearing purple sequins, or the girl who lugs her baby doll to space camp.

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(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-17 09:53 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dampscribbler, 2007-05-17 10:07 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]ginmar, 2007-05-17 10:11 pm UTC (Expand)
(no subject) - [info]dampscribbler, 2007-05-18 03:35 am UTC (Expand)
I have 3 girls
[info]mia3mom
2007-05-18 04:06 pm UTC (link)
and they desperately want a copy of this book! We are a family filled with energetic people, and my kids want to do as much "dangerous" stuff as their friends who are boys. Even my husband couldn't think of anything he did as a kid that our girls wouldn't want to do (short of peeing his name in the snow!).

We homeschool, so that might be part of why my kids love watching ants and digging in dirt while wearing fancy dresses. ;) less peer pressure.

I wrote loads more about it over at my blog: http://www.ourgaggleofgirls.com/agog

thanks for sharing your opinion as a public entry!

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boys and girls how to solve this dilemma
(Anonymous)
2008-03-04 09:40 pm UTC (link)
why not just have 1 unisex to solve all your problems of unfair views of woman every man gets girl body parts, and every woman gets male parts, and were all big one happy family of one sex, that would be quite dull.

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Re: boys and girls how to solve this dilemma - [info]ginmar, 2008-03-04 09:48 pm UTC (Expand)